Letter to the Editor

Dear friends,

We heard a lot of election year rhetoric from Jill “HYPOCRISY” Vogel promising to focus on important issues like jobs, the economy, education and transportation. The truth is that she has played the old classic “bait and switch” game with the voters. 

Vogel has turned out to be the “culture warrior” I said she was with he actions on the floor of the Virginia State Senate this session, including authoring this now nationally infamous, embarrassing and invasive vagina probing ultrasound bill. She has been at the lead of this socially obcessed and radical crusade by the majority of Republicans in the legislature of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

While people are still suffering throughout Virginia and our localities struggle to fend for themselves, our senator has chosen to turn her back on her constituents by pushing this radical agenda, born from her own self serving interests and ambition.

Vogel had played with fire for long enough and now finally has gotten burnt. She is now damaged goods, forever branded with the likes of this political albatross of a bill secured tightly around her neck.

We can only hope and pray this “culture warrior” has learned her lesson and will attempt to right the ship in the future by focusing on the issues that matter most to her constituents.

That may be a little too much to expect from the likes of Senator Jill H. Vogel, but we can at least hope for an act of divine intervention. Right?

In other words, it ain’t gonna happen.

Vogel has been clearly damaged along with the GOP. They will be held accountable and shall suffer the consequences of pure politically stupidity in such an over reach of power in which they have displayed.

The left, middle and moderate republicans have had enough of this nonsense. This is a losing hand played by Vogel and friends, but by all means let them keep it up…

They will be digging their own political graves in the process!

Respectfully,

Shaun D. Broy

Comments

  1. clarke conservative says:

    Yet an almost identical ultrasound bill to the one Jill Vogel championed passes the Virginia Senate 21-19. Wait a minute … this makes it a bi-partisan bill. A Pro-Life Democrat voted for it!

    Meanwhile the Democrats in the Senate have voted down in a strictly party line vote a bi-partisan (79-21) House of Delegates fiscal budget solely because they are throwing a temper tantrum over committee assignments. Could the Democrat Party be throwing the whole Virginia government and credit ratings in jeopardy for personal reasons?

    Absolutely! Would you expect anything else?

  2. I thought you were off to Hawaii?

    If you’d like to talk about “radical”, I’m your Huckleberry. One need only look to the testimoney of two of Obama’s lackey’s yesterday on the Hill. I thought it was April 1st, not March 1st

    Obama’s Energy Secretary, who doesn’t seem to mind that we’re paying high gas prices and wishes they were higher

    http://flapsblog.com/2012/02/29/video-obama-secretary-of-energy-steven-chu-energy-dept-working-to-wean-u-s-off-oil-not-lower-gas-prices/

    Then, later in the day, Kathleen Sebilius, HHS Secretary, let slip a little nugget as well

    http://www.emaxhealth.com/11394/sebelius-grilled-health-care-insurance-ways-and-means

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius today characterized private health insurance providers as in a “death spiral.”
    In a contentious hearing before the House Ways and Means Committee, Sebelius addressed a number of controversial issues regarding the administration’s Affordable Care Act. She said the deterioration of private health insurance was inevitable whether the new health care law had passed Congress or not.

    “The private market is in a death spiral . . . it wouldn’t have mattered if we had passed the Affordable Care Act or not.” The secretary’s comments followed Ways and Means Committee member Rep. Peter Roskam (R-Ill) who asked her about the administration’s assurances that people who liked their current health insurance plan would be able to keep it under the new law.
    “How about when the president said you can keep your health care coverage, if you like it? And yet, the reality is, according to Bloomberg News, at least nine percent fewer businesses are offering medical coverage than in 2010. There, the rhetoric didn’t meet the reality did it?”

    Sebelius did not argue the numbers.

    So we have one department head that isn’t lifting a finger to stabilize gas prices and actually wishes they wer higher so we all transfer to Hopey Changey Clown cars, and we have another department head that among other things, it glad the government is undercutting private businesses with the hope that everyone will have no alternative but to get on the government health care.

    THAT is radical

  3. Another View says:

    Let me get this straight; it is “radical” to make efforts to lessen abortion (aka killing unborn babies) within the parameters of the federal dictates, but it is not “radical” to advocate the killing of unborn babies (aka abortion).

    I’m no big fan of Senator Vogel, but I wholly support her efforts to lessen baby killing. And I’m trying to imagine why Shaun and others want to kill babies. It makes no sense to me.

    • Clueless says:

      Abortion is a personal matter; if you don’t want one, don’t get one. I consider sodas containing high fructose corn syrup a health hazard and never drink them, but I also respect your right to drink them if you so choose. Let’s keep our hands off each others bodies and religion out of politics.

      Isn’t it interesting that many of the very people who rail against theocratic governments in middle eastern countries advocate for religious intervention in ours?

      I wish you peace, love and harmony. Let’s respectfully co-exist…

  4. Shaun Broy says:

    Please do not go there… I am tired of being called a “Baby Killer” and refuse to let you label me as such. The truth is that this is about a lot more than about here… BELIEVE me when I say that this “Abortion” topic is no easy one to even discuss, little alone take it to the floor of our government.

    The truth is that I truly do not have all the answers, nor will I ever be able to speak to the benefits to abortion being used as a form of birth control in anyway…

    The fact that, I DON’T KNOW what it feels like to carry a fetus inside of me, and do not pretend to even come close to understanding the types of feelings, both mental anguish and physically it has to be for most women to chose this option.

    I do not call for abortion to even be on the table after twenty weeks, as it has been generally accepted by the scientific and medical community that the fetus or baby at that point can indeed feel pain.

    The answer that I can give you regarding this issue is that “I don’t know” what it feels like or can ever put my feet in the shoes of a woman who may have possibly been made pregnant by rape or incest, or somehow the best intent of contraceptives failed for the woman.

    In this case, I as a male can only consciously yield to the right of a woman to make such a monumental choice about her body.

    This new bill that passed the senate floor does other things that are intrusive and inconsiderate of women in general. For example, a woman walking down Indian Alley in Winchester is approached from behind, knocked to the ground by an unknown male and then pulled across the asphalt into the back of a large S.U.V. Then her mouth is gagged, hands secured tightly behind her back with duct tape. She is proceeded to be viciously raped and beaten, called every vile name in the book and threatened with her life. This not just happens once, but 15 minutes afterwards a new guy pulls up beside the S.U.V. and jumps in and high fives the original rapist, then proceeds to violently rape her once again, causing her to now be forced to lay in a growing puddle of blood underneath her body.

    When the “fun” ends, they drive out of town and into a field. Then drag her bruised and beaten body out of the S.U.V. and dropped into a pile a brush. One of the vicious rapist then pulls a handgun out from his back pocket, places it against her head and thanks the woman for a good time, but to bring an end to this horrific act, she is told that her life is now about to end. The two spawns of Satan then each spit in her face and say “thanks for a good time.” All she can think about is her husband and two young children at home in Winchester. They push the gun forcefully into her head and pull the trigger. Then she hears the “click” of an unloaded gun, as these guys start to laugh.

    They then each slap her in the face with something other than their hands, jump in the S.U.V and speed away, leaving her in the middle of nowhere, still bleeding and in shock.

    She is found about 24 hours later by a couple of kids, who ran and called for help. She is rushed to the hospital. She will live and physically recover.

    Then as she finally begins to be able to walk again, finds out that she is pregnant and not from her husband.

    She is then forced to get an ultrasound, which she refuses to look at and decides that she can not mentally handle the toll of carrying to term the fetus that now resides within her and against her personal beliefs… in the best interests of her and her family she decides to proceed with aborting the fetus at 15 weeks. This was no easy choice.

    A few years following the incident, she is flipping through her medical records and comes across the picture of that ultrasound of the fetus that she unwillingly did anything to produce or consent for such an ultrasound to be placed in her medical records for the rest of her life. The feelings and hurt come rushing back into her mind, she starts to shake and begins to cry. The memories of something she had no choice in producing or participated in… have now once again flooded her emotions, as she begins to once again replay that horrific night in her mind once again…

    This is what the bill just passed on the floor of the state senate will cause, if signed into law by the Governor, which is likely.

    This is a horrific over-reach and intrusive role of government into the lives of women residing in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    This is real.

    So… If you want to throw such a label as “baby killer” at my feet for standing against what the reality of this bill will ultimately cause some women in this state to be forced to endure, then I must say… Does that make you a “rapist?”

    No… no it doesn’t… not in anyway… but to have the audacity to label me as a “baby killer” is personally offensive and simply an example of pure… unjustified ignorance.

    Where I stand on this issue, is righteous and out of true conviction in the belief that this is the wrong way to tell women what their rights in such an occasion should be and I refuse to stand on the side of future intrusive force into the personal lives of women and can only yield to their right to make their own choices based on circumstances beyond our control.

    It’s time to focus on the issues that matter most to our communities, not issues that divide and are far more complicated for the government to dive into the likes of such measures.

    -Shaun Broy

    • You did see where it was amended to exclude women like the one in your example, nes se pas?

    • clarke conservative says:

      Mr. Broy,

      Prior to Roe vs Wade abortions for incest, rape, life of the mother and deformities to the fetus were allowed by law. That law should stand. I don’t even call for other abortions to be outlawed, because unfortunately people are going to do what people do. Look at drugs, alcohol, etc. No return to back alleys.

      But we should try everything we can to minimize abortions. Knowledge will do that.

      Today less than 1% of all abortions are because of rape or incest. 6% are due to birth defects. The rest, more than 93% of abortions and approximately 1.1 million a year, are purely optional – a form of birth control.

      You may not be aware but Planned Parenthood already performs ultrasounds before abortions. It is mandatory policy. To quote: “Ultrasounds have been a standard part of abortion services and are always performed on every patient before any type of procedure is done.”

      http://www.plannedparenthood.org/setexas-abortion/texas-abortion-laws-28992.htm

      Jill Vogel’s bill, and identical laws in 22 other states, gives the mother an opportunity to view an ultrasound of her baby before an abortion. To hopefully change her mind.

      I can say my life changed when I saw an ultrasound of my now 3-year old daughter when she was 8-weeks from conception. While checking for an eptopic pregancy I saw the head, eyes, arms, hands, backbone and most importantly a beating heart of my child. A heart independently beating at 165 bpm. I was ambivalent, ignorant about the perils of abortion before that day. What I saw that day was my child. How anyone could end a life after seeing that would be beyond me.

      And that is what happens to the majority mothers who see an ultrasound on the abortion table – they make a choice, not out of ignorance but out of knowledge, to keep their child. What is so wrong with that? How could you possibly be against that?

      • Roscoe Evans says:

        Ectopic pregnancies are not viable. All but invariably, they result in the death of the mother, the child or both, and therefore require a remedial abortion. That is why your doctor required that ultrasound procedure: to determine what medical procedure was necessary.

        I am glad for you that you and your wife were not faced with that decision, but why no empathy for those parents who are?

        And why do all of us continue to talk about this in terms of its being the mother’s or the woman’s decision? I agree with the courts that the ultimate decision is the woman’s alone; but it is inhumane, as Sharon has suggested, eloquently, that a pregnancy, birth, or abortion is the mother’s ‘fault” and only hers.

        • clarke conservative says:

          I don’t know if you read what I say, or do you just react to emotion, which most liberals do.

          I do not advocate banning abortion. I fully accept prior to Roe vs Wade abortions for rape, incest, life of mother, deformities of fetus, etc were legal in Virginia. Even though I firmly believe life begins at conception I do not advocate overturning Roe vs Wade and banning the remaining 93% of abortions (1.1 million a year) that are done solely for birth control because I realize it would push abortions underground. I absolutely think we should do everything we can to reduce the number of abortions and that starts with education.

          I agree with the bill Jill Vogel submitted (SB484) because the mother should be given the opportunity to view the ultrasound of the fetus before the mother proceeds with the abortion.

          Planned Parenthood (which mandates ultrasounds before all abortions) does not let the mother look at the ultrasound. It would put their $160 million a year business, out of business. The reason they do ultrasounds is to determine age of fetus.

          I firmly believe if a mother is given the CHOICE to see her baby she will change her mind and decide to keep the child, or give it life and put the child up for adoption.

          … What is so wrong with that? or are you Pro-Abortion instead of Pro-Choice?

  5. “…For example, a woman walking down Indian Alley in Winchester is approached from behind, knocked to the ground by an unknown male and then pulled across the asphalt into the back of a large S.U.V. Then her mouth is gagged, hands secured tightly behind her back with duct tape. She is proceeded to be viciously raped and beaten, called every vile name in the book and threatened with her life. This not just happens once, but 15 minutes afterwards a new guy pulls up beside the S.U.V. and jumps in and high fives the original rapist, then proceeds to violently rape her once again, causing her to now be forced to lay in a growing puddle of blood underneath her body.

    When the “fun” ends, they drive out of town and into a field. Then drag her bruised and beaten body out of the S.U.V. and dropped into a pile a brush. One of the vicious rapist then pulls a handgun out from his back pocket, places it against her head and thanks the woman for a good time, but to bring an end to this horrific act, she is told that her life is now about to end. The two spawns of Satan then each spit in her face and say “thanks for a good time.” All she can think about is her husband and two young children at home in Winchester. They push the gun forcefully into her head and pull the trigger. Then she hears the “click” of an unloaded gun, as these guys start to laugh.

    They then each slap her in the face with something other than their hands, jump in the S.U.V and speed away, leaving her in the middle of nowhere, still bleeding and in shock…”

    I’m actually surprised that the editors of CDN allowed this disgusting diatribe to be posted.

    Hawaii’s calling.

  6. Another View says:

    This is not “real”, this is you inventing the most horrific fictional possibility imaginable to tug at the uninformed’s heartstrings. You appeal to emotion, because you cannot handle the facts.

    Abortion stills a beating heart. That is a fact.

    Most abortions are for convenience. That is a fact.

    The next largest group of abortions is to terminate a child deemed undesirable for probable birth defects, sex, or other cosmetic reasons. That is a fact.

    Your party–YOU PEOPLE–support partial birth abortions which is the barbaric slaughter of a viable human being. That is a fact.

    Now if you wish to debate the morality of preventing a rape victim from receiving an abortion, let’s do so. I shall concede that the mother will be anguished and mentally distraught. Will you concede that the unborn child is innocent of the crime of rape? Will you concede that life is to be favored over death? Will you concede that aborting an unborn child conceived by rape is the taking of an innocent life?

    That is real.

  7. Shaun Broy says:

    The bill requires and ultrasound, that is placed in the woman’s medical record.

  8. Shaun Broy says:

    The unfortunate truth is this happens in Virginia many times each year. This is reality folks.

  9. Shaun Broy says:

    One more thing… I do not support partial birth abortions. If you actually read all that I said, you can clearly see where I stand.

    This is how I be… And… I stand on the side of the majority of Americans.

    I rest my case.

  10. Shaun Broy says:

    The last line of my original letter is the true intent of which I write. We are of track and focusing on issues that drive a wedge between us, versus focusing on issues that are the most important ones to the majority of the people.

  11. Another View says:

    Mr. Broy, your case–at best–is that you stand for the limited killing of unborn babies. And in support of that notion, you create a fictional account of the most horrific type in order to scare folks.

    If you were a lawyer, your case would not make it to the jury, as a judge would direct a verdict for the opposing side.

    You need a reality check!

    • Shaun Broy says:

      I am not in a courtroom, nor pretend to be, or need to be…

      You see the highest court in the land has already ruled on the legality of this matter.

      Reference… ROE vs. WADE

      I believe this argument was settled long ago… It is time to move on.

  12. Hypocrisy vs Hippocratic oath says:

    The “job creators” in Richmond passed the ultrasound bill today. If the bill had been a food product, it would be pulled from the shelves by the FDA for violating the truth in labeling laws. The general theme of comments to this article only confirm it. Remember that the bill was thinly veneered to claim that the purpose was merely to establish the gestational age of the fetus. The external ultrasound compromise that McDonnell pushed would be completely useless for early stage pregnancies, rendering the gestational age question moot. Ex-Vice President candidate McDonnell claims he didn’t really appreciate the significance of a transvaginal procedure. What in the world did he think “transvaginal” was, an airline?? No, the bill that passed in Richmond today was, in fact, psy-ops against pregnant women with the intent to dissuade them from having an abortion. If the GOP is going to have a culture war, at least they could forego a guerrilla war and put their cards on the table for the voters to see.

    When the health care act passed congress, Ken Cuccinelli ran to the courts like he was trying to be first in line to kiss the bride at a Polish wedding. Cuccinelli argued that the government has no right to require a citizen to purchase a health service from a private company. Today the GOP in Richmond required pregnant women to purchase a health service from a private company.

    • “Today the GOP in Richmond required pregnant women to purchase a health service from a private company.”

      Well, which is it for you libs? If you are for Obamacare, you should have no problems with this law.If you say this law is BS because of it’s requirements, you must say Obamacare is BS as well.

      • Stu Tudegills says:

        OK, Sarge. Try to keep up here. Requiring health insurance in order to avoid abuse of emergency room rules- good thing. Requiring frivolous ultrasound examinations for the whim of right wing proponents- bad thing. Got it?

        • Mandating people to buy something they don’t want or need = bad

          Mandating something (free of cost BTW to the patient) that might save a life = good thing

          • Ultrasounds Aren't Free says:

            Sarge: the Ultrasound will not be free. It will cost hundreds of dollars. Insurance companies will not pay for the procedure because it is not “medically necessary” and the Republicans rejected an amendment that would have mandated that insurance companies pay for the procedure.

          • clarke conservative says:

            To quote Planned Parenthood – “Ultrasounds have been a standard part of abortion services and are always performed on every patient before any type of procedure is done.”

            http://www.plannedparenthood.org/setexas-abortion/texas-abortion-laws-28992.htm

          • Kerry Desjardins says:

            “Mandating something (free of cost BTW to the patient) that might save a life = good thing”

            I like how you said “something”.

            Our laws currently protect the right of a parent to own a gun, even though curious children die every year looking at their parent’s gun. Should we start requiring a parent to look at a picture of their dead child holding a gun before they are allowed to buy that gun?

  13. Another View says:

    If Mr. Broy’s argument were sound–that the S. Ct. has spoken and we must now move on–then blacks would still sit in the back of the bus, women would not have many of the advances that they now enjoy, and the government would be empowered to quash free speech.

    Indeed, if Mr. Broy’s argument were sound, we could just eliminate the President, the Congress and free elections, because we are to be ruled by a legal oligarchy of 9.

    I think most Americans would reject Mr. Broy’s argument.

    • Wow…you really are flailing here. Ratified amendments supercede any SCOTUS rulings (see women’s suffrage, etc.), and Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, KS, and other legislation from the Civil Rights momvement (which have not been challenged in court, and thus stand in support of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments) undercut your other pithy attempts at an argument.

    • Shaun Broy says:

      FACT CHECK: The REALITY is that the results of recently conducted national polls show an average of 65 percent of Americans don’t think the government should interfere with access to abortion or a woman’s right to choose.

      What you THINK and REALITY are obviously two totally different things, let this be and my whole point has been ENOUGH OF THIS SOCIALLY DIVISIVE AGENDA! It may be your most important issue, but it ain’t even close to being at the top of the vast majority of Americans.

      Care to try and focus on the actual meaning and intent of my original letter at the top of this page?!?!? Let’s talk real problems, like jobs, struggling families, unfunded mandates, crumbling infrastructure, energy solutions and transportation.

      I am not a baby killer and you are no rapist, but our neighbors are upside down in their mortgages, struggling to put food on the table, put gas in their car and oh… figuring out where to the money to pay for heating our schools and retaining our teachers. I could go on… and on… but this conversation is done. Please put that energy and passion into solving some of these types of issues, instead of driving a wedge between our communities and taking the focus away from the likes of salvaging our school systems, that have been left to fend for themselves and being able to pay enough teachers to invest in the future of this Commonwealth and our nation.

      You wanna talk ultrasounds, and the likes of murderers as which are defined upon occurring due to abominations according to the Bible and how basically we should be sentencing 99.9% of our neighbors to death because of it, then give Jill Vogel a call and decide which of us should be sent to the gallows first. The Gays? The Adulterous? Those who have ever chosen to work on the Sabbath?

      Then head out into one of Clarke County’s farms together, with a truck load of stones and proceed to stone to death farmer after farmer for planting two different types of crops together side by side, as the Bible speaks to such actions.

      Then make sure that you head to the high schools next and the little league football teams that us a thing called a football in vain. As the Bible calls for and condemns those who touch the skin of a dead pig as to be deemed unclean. Go try and stop the Clarke County Eagles from playing football this fall… I dare you…

      Would you happen to be wearing garments made of two or more different threads? Do you wish to enlighten us on just what the Bible says about such a thing???

      Do you care to quote for us, each chapter and verse each of these items can be read aloud from Bible? If not, let me know… because I can with ease.

      We all are God’s children, but the Bible is just as imperfect as each of us… Why did I bring the Bible into this whole conversation??? Well… in your eyes I am a “baby killer” and according to the Bible, “Thou shall not kill.” I should be put to death. Right?

      According to my Bible… You have no better soul to offer at the gates of heaven than that of my own. Do you???

      This… this… defines very clearly, that you have a busy few months and years ahead of you, as you better get started, because there are an awful lot of us that shall be put to death around here if we shall base our laws upon that of scripture and not justice… and just toss aside the laws of the land in the process as well. What good do they serve in your world????

      You called me and others baby killers. I resent that statement and so do others… Who are you to say what is right versus what is wrong????

      Now… Can we please get back to putting people back to work and finding ways to invest in our future???

      I am done with this conversation, but you can continue to toss around the term “baby killer” as long as you want thy righteous Miss Informed.

      I recommend, heading out to gather all those stones you are gonna need…

      The point of all this, has turned into a question of morality. The letter I wrote, clearly challenged us to work on things that bring us together and push us forward… not drop kick us backwards to 1956.

      We are so much more better than that and the future of this country depends upon us laying the foundation for prosperity and that has nothing to do with what these comments and statements have turned into…

      I am done.

      Good Bye… Good Luck and God Bless you all…

  14. I, personally, do not believe in abortion. In my youth, I had sex before marriage…just like most of you did who are railing against Mr. Broy. I just happened to get pregnant, and I guess you didn’t. For the men in this group, how many of you had sex before marriage? Do you even know if you fathered a child? If you do, did you stand up to that responsibility? There’s only been one woman, Mary, who had immaculate conception. The rest of us, can’t get pregnant without one of you. But we’re always the sluts…no shame on you, is there? If your son came home today and said he got someone pregnant, what would you do? Would you make him stand up and do the right thing? Or would you let him walk away?

    I am so tired of the right being so sanctimonious. You scream and blather that the left is killing babies. You scream and blather that the left is attacking religion. But, lets face it, you would do nothing to help the young girl I was, nor the baby. You would have humiliated that young girl. You would have told your children to stay away from her. You would have called her names.

    Today, in 2012, you would require her to have a drug test if she dared to apply WIC or for food stamps or any other support from social services. You allow your mouthpiece, Rush Limbaugh, to call her names across the national airwaves, like slut and prostitute, just as he has done to a Georgetown University student only because she had the courage to speak out about contraception. She’s not even pregnant. You would support a “personhood” amendment which could outlaw all types of hormonal birth control, thereby creating more unwanted pregnancies….and then, of course, blame the woman for getting pregnant in the first place.

    This country was founded on religious freedom…to believe or not to believe. You have the right to believe and practice your religion, please do so. But you don’t have the right to tell me or anyone else what to believe. You believe that a abortion is wrong. That’s great, then don’t have one. You, obviously, think it is okay to be raped by a vaginal probe mandated by the state, I don’t. You probably support the death penalty, I don’t. Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    I had my child…she is now 38 years old and I love her dearly. It was a decision I made with my family, with my doctor and with my minister. However, the father of my child just walked away…no responsibility, not one dime of child support ever, not one letter of concern about the child he had helped conceive. I found out who my friends were. I was called names. Parents of my friends forbid them from talking to me. I’m not any better a person than someone who decided, in a similar situation, to have an abortion. I believe your religion teaches you not to judge others, but I think most of you have forgotten that lesson in the Bible. I also believe you have forgotten that Jesus fed the poor and downtrodden. He was his brother’s keeper. Are you?

    • Another View says:

      What about other killings? Should murder be a right because it does not offend someone, or they believe it necessary to their health or happiness? Should murder be deemed none of society’s concern, dismissed with the pithy slogan “if you are against murder, don’t commit one?” Is that where we are headed?

      • While I do not set out to offend you, if I do it is simply because we have different belief systems. I believe that we must speak to each other, to share our feelings, to acknowledge that we have differences of opinion, and to agree to be tolerant of each others beliefs. I personally do not believe in abortion, but you believe life begins at conception and abortion is murder, I do not. You may not agree with me, but I ask you to accept me for who I am and what I believe. My husband is pro-choice. It doesn’t mean I love him less. It does mean, however, that we recognize we will not change each others opinions, and therefore, we agree to disagree.

        Many people believe in the death penalty, I don’t. But I don’t go around calling those who believe in the death penalty murderers. Should we all be called murderers because we allow the poor to starve or because we allow our vets to freeze to death while they live on the street?

        Tolerance and recognition that we can each have different beliefs and the willingness to respect each other with those differences…not judging each other…is the only way for our democracy to succeed.

        • Another View says:

          You do not offend me. You also do not dissuade me.

          I have no tolerance for the intentional taking of innocent human life. And I do judge those who do.

          No one “allows” the poor to starve or “vets” to freeze while they live on the street. Like Mr. Broy, you tend to confuse personal obligations and duties with government responsibilities. This country concerns individual freedom and liberty, not the imposition on individuals to provide for others. Charity is not to be forced, else it ceases to be charity.

          By contrast, our governments are charged with the preservation of life. The intentional taking of life, absent due process, is illegal everywhere in this land. And the taking of innocent human life is not only illegal and unconstitutional, but immoral.

          I am sorry, but some things do not lend themselves to compromise.

          • Abortion in Roe v. Wade was upheld as a constitutional right. I did not seek compromise from you, I sought tolerance. I do not expect to change your beliefs, nor do I expect that you will change mine. I will agree to disagree with you…though I fear you are not willing to do the same.

          • Another View says:

            If the Supreme Court ruled tomorrow that the sun rose in the West, that would not make it so. The Roe decision was judicial tyranny, and extra-constitutional, invalid ab initio. It has no effect of law if free men would only realize that fact and act.

            You may disagree with me, and you may get 299, 999, 999 Americans to agree with you, but abortion will still be illegal, unconstitutional and immoral. Right and wrong are not subject to a vote.

          • I don’t believe that a Supreme Court ruling would be considered a vote. Further, it seems you believe “free men” should only be bound by those laws with which they agree. In a civil society, we are all bound by the same laws…including those we don’t like.

          • Another View says:

            Again, it is not a matter of agreement or like, it is about the rule of law. If you read the Constitution, you will see that it does not permit the federal government to have any involvement in abortion–pro or con. Roe is not a matter of a bad ruling, it is a matter of an illegitimate ruling. There is a huge difference.

          • Fly on the wall says:

            That’s your weakest argument yet. There are myriad things in today’s society that were unknown to James Madison and the other framers of the Constitution; however, by extension of the expressed and implied powers, the federal government has adapted over time – by acts of Congress (representing the will of we the people who elect them), or executive orders of Presidents of all political stripes, or by decisions rendered by the Supreme Court (from bedrock principles established in cases like Marbury v. Madison all the way to recent politically charged ones like Bush v. Gore or the Keno decision).

            We the People don’t get to pick and choose which laws or court rulings we can follow or not; there is a process for changing the law, whether thru the Congressional channels or via a court challenge. Your use of Latin phrases doesn’t change the facts.

          • I have a copy of the Constitution hanging on my living room wall. I have read it. But your determination that Roe v Wade is illegitimate based on that document does not make it so…it is merely your opinion. As of this moment, Roe v. Wade is the rule of law in the United States. Your opinion of the law does not change the fact. As such, you and I, as members of this civil society are bound by that law.

          • Fly on the wall says:

            The SC decision in Roe v. Wade was not extra-constitutional. It came about through the prescribed appellate process spelled out in the U.S. Constitution, which grants that the SC is the highest court in the land and has appellate jurisdiction over lower court rulings. Thus, it’s decisions tend to be final…up to and unless a newer case on the same grounds comes along and the SC reverses its decisions (as it did with the rulings from the Civil Rights Era overturning long-standing decisions such as “Dred Scott” and so forth.

            Additionally, the SC decision was based in part on its interpretation fo the due process clause protected in the 14th Amendment. So…again…unless a court case works its way up the chain to the SC, and deals with a similar issue as Roe v. Wade, and the justices on the SC at that time determine to rule differently…the Roe v. Wade ruling will remain, and – indeed – does carry the effect of law as all SC rulings do.

            Personally, I don’t believe that abortion is a good and moral thing. However, I also don’t believe that it is the government’s place to meddle in the conversation between a woman, her doctor, and her God. If someone I knew were contemplating it, I would try to help her explore her options fully, but…ultimately, it is her decision. AV, I can respect your different opinion, but I think that your zeal and your hyper-heated rhetoric blinds you to the very real legal facts of the matter.

          • Another View says:

            I find you folks’ ignorance of our Constitution and our history truly breathtaking. If our forefathers were as passive, we would still be ruled by Parliament.

            Moreover, you can rationalize all day about abortion as being a matter of choice, or privacy, or between a woman and her doctor, but in the end, it all boils down to the same thing–abortion is about the taking of innocent human life. And that is a terrible, terrible thing, that should never be tolerated in a civilized country.

          • Roscoe Evans says:

            You discredited yourself totally the moment you proclaimed our government tyrannical, and advocated a violent overthrow if the current administration is voted into a second term.

            You find refuge in violence, yet argue that women who simply exercise their rights over their own bodies are murderers.

            I had thought for a while that you were making some meager attempt at juvenile humor, but if that ever was the case, you have failed, miserably.

            All you’ve shown is that you can read and memorize and cite some self-selected legal jargon; but in doing so you’ve proved your ignorance of the law of homicide, the law of self-defense, the law of rape and and the law of abortion. Yet you profess to be a Constitutional scholar. Right.

            How about you grow up and face the issues of the real world. And try educating yourself before you attempt again to preach your ignorance about the laws of the United States.

            I’m glad for you that you mastered “Thou Shalt Not Kill” but you show no evidence that you know any of the other nine commandments, no less the law upon which this nation is founded.

          • Another View says:

            Mr. Evans, I practice law every day. I am confident of my knowledge and understanding of it.

            Indeed, as I said, it pains me that so many, such as yourself, are willing–no, eager–to trade your liberty and freedom for the security contained in politicians’ promises. As Ben Franklin noted, he who would make such a trade, in the end, enjoys neither.

            Our forefathers would never countenance tax rates as high as we have, government as meddlesome, courts inventing rights, and a command from a President that some must pay so others may have healthcare. Barack Hussein Obama makes George III look downright benevolent.

            I am not ignorant nor afraid. I am willing to stand for liberty and die, if necessary for it. Can you say truly say the same?

  15. Kerry Desjardins says:

    I don’t enjoy talking, writing or reading about the topic of abortion. It is obviously an incredibly sensitive topic, and debates about it usually turn to horrific hypothetical situations and hateful name calling.

    And as I frequently observe in debates about abortion, parts of this discussion have turned to naming the conditions under which abortion is evil, and when it is tolerable, i.e. instances of rape and incest. And at that point I start to wonder…

    Who gets the authority to judge these circumstances? Who gets to decide whether a girl or woman has been raped, and what would this evaluation entail? I’ll risk assuming that many of you would answer: a jury or judge in a trial, or a doctor through medical investigation.

    I wish we lived in a world were victims of rape and incest had no need to feel afraid to report it, and were believed when they did. I wish doctors always took the time to look for and collect medical evidence of rape. I wish that medical investigations determine unequivocally that rape did or did not occur. And imagine, women being provided appropriate, quality medical care (both physical and mental, immediate and on-going) that was sensitive to their experience. In this ideal world, victims would be able to concentrate on healing, and not on medical expenses.

    I wish that we lived in a world where the victims with the courage to come forward found justice. I wish juries and judges were always right, and that rapists always went to prison. I wish that the victims of rape and incest, and their families, weren’t stigmatized, and neither were the families and loved ones of perpetrators.

    I wish that all women who do make the tough decision to carry out a pregnancy faced no risk of losing their job or income, and I wish they received outstanding prenatal and postpartum care without having to worry about how they’ll pay for it. And I wish that we lived in a world where a woman raising a child conceived from rape, could financially and emotionally afford to raise the child alone, without being stigmatized or discriminated against.

    But the truth is that we live in a world where the relationships between women and men, girls and boys, are still very unequal. Victims of rape and abuse still have many reasons to fear reporting it. Rape and incest is most often committed by someone the victim knows, they are frequently doubted or treated as if they are at fault. They often do not receive the medical treatment they need because it is denied to them or they can’t afford it. Any pregnant woman working for a private entity in Virginia could be fired without recourse.

    Furthermore, there is no way to unequivocally prove or disprove rape. The definition of rape varies among different people, and can be changed y other factors. Our justice system is not infallible. Rapists walk free every day, while their victims are often labeled as sluts who couldn’t admit to their own mistakes. Some survivors of rape and abuse are stigmatized by their communities. Single and unmarried mothers are often discriminated against and criticized.

    Many of you out there are eager to name rape as one of a few circumstances in which abortion would be legal, but are you ready to address THESE issues first?

    I’m relieved that at least one person in my community isn’t so hasty.

  16. Another View says:

    Rape is defined in the Virginia Code and the common law. It is a distinct act that can be proved a variety of ways.

    The problem you seem to describe concerns the element of consent. That is, some women decide after the fact that they wish that the sex act had not occurred, and therefore they wrongly claim to have been raped. The men in those cases are not rapists and they do not walk free.

    There are no issues that need to be addressed as to rape. Abortion, on the other hand, needs to be abolished, as it involves the taking of a human life.