Supervisors Debate Future Double Tollgate Development

On Monday the Clarke County Board of Supervisors were in agreement that it’s time to define the boundaries and zoning that will govern commercial development around Double Tollgate in the southwest corner of the county. But there was little agreement on the scope and process of a proposed $34K study intended to provide recommendations for managing commercial growth in the region.

Double Tollgate is located in the southwestern portion of Clarke County, Virginia

Development possibilities for the Double Tollgate area, which is now primarily rural farmland, has grabbed the Supervisors’s attention for several reasons. First, both Warren County to the south and Frederick County to the west have implemented high density commercial and light industrial zoning for areas abutting the Double Tollgate area of Clarke. The adjacent Warren and Frederick zoning could define Clarke’s land use policies unless the Supervisors are proactive in establishing their own development vision for the area. Second, the Double Tollgate area is defined by the intersection of two major highways, US 522 and US 340, which have seen significant traffic increases largely due to development in Frederick and Warren County. According to Clarke County planning administrator Chuck Johnston, the area now serves 18,000 vehicle trips per day. Last, but not least, is the disposition of the 200-acre state-owned White Post Detention Center which has fallen into disuse over the last few years. A strong Double Tollgate land use plan, that includes the Detention Center property, could influence how the land is used should the Commonwealth decide to officially dispose of the property.

At Monday’s Board of Supervisor work session planning administrator Johnston presented a draft study area map that included approximately 600 acres. Johnston’s proposed study area, which stretches from just north of the US 522 – US 340 intersection south along US 522 to just north of the Warren County boundary, drew immediate comment from all five Supervisors as well as Johnston himself.

“I’m not a proponent of strip development so this map is really a way of starting the discussion” Johnston said. “I’d prefer to see us create an urban village kind of development there. For example, if we could draw genetic research companies interested in doing research on animals and crops the area could provide a big laboratory for them to work with. The point is that this area has an obvious link in a larger pattern of development. This study will help us determine what we want to do there or whether we would prefer to pull back.”

But Johnston’s 600-acre corridor suggestion, covering roughly 850 feet along either side of US 522 stretching south, was immediately challenged by Supervisor Pete Dunning (White Post).

“This kind of strip development is very un-Clarke County” Dunning said. “Our planning has been strong for a long time and there is a lot of difference between Clarke County and Frederick County. That 5,000 acres west of Double Tollgate is totally uncontrolled. God bless our neighbors but I’m glad that it’s there and not here.”

Supervisor Barbara Byrd (Russell) expressed concerns for ensuring that Double Tollgate area development did not necessarily follow the patterns defined in Warren and Frederick County and also questioned the wisdom of spending money with a consultant to make recommendations for development in the area.

“We need to be different in order to be good” Byrd said in reference to future commercial development in the area. “We shouldn’t pattern ourselves after what is being done in Warren and Frederick. I’m also not sure that we need to spend nearly $40K now for an expert to tell us how to develop our county especially when it could be ten to fifteen years before the economy will recover enough to build there.”

Supervisor Dunning joined Byrd in questioning the value of spending taxpayer money to study the area and suggested that Berryville’s that the county should focus more on building out the existing industrial park in Berryville.

As discussion veered away consideration of the commercial district study and into potential specifics of what might or might not be appropriate for the area, Supervisor David Weiss (Buckmarsh) expressed frustration with the lack of focus on what he saw as the matter at hand; defining the boundaries of the study area and then approving or disapproving the land use study.

“You’ve said what you don’t want” Weiss said to Dunning. “Now can you say what you do want?”

Dunning, whose voting district includes Double Tollgate, expressed support for studying the 50-acre area immediately around the US 522/US 340 intersection. However, Supervisors Hobert (Berryville) and Staelin (Millwood) disagreed.

“I’m not sure that we want to preclude an expert from looking at areas outside of that box” Hobert said. “I have strong concerns about strip development too but I don’t think that we want to tie a consultant’s hands.”

Staelin echoed Hobert’s sentiment. “Given the commercial development going on nearby the consultant may tell us that the development drives the shape of the study area” Staelin said.

Staelin pointed out that the economics of extending sewer and water to the area didn’t make sense for only a 50-acre parcel so expanding the study area could provide the Supervisors with additional options.

“We can’t afford to get sewer and water to such a small area” Staelin said. “We need to either leave it as it is with small septic fields or do a larger study to investigate what the cost of economic development really is.”

Clarke County has already expended $40K studying land use for the 50-acres adjacent to the Double Tollgate intersection. The additional $34K would include a $9K contract to study engineering infrastructure costs with the remaining $25K focused on defining reasonable economic boundaries for future commercial zoning in the area.

After a reaching stalemate on the pros and cons of limiting the economic study to a smaller area versus consideration of a larger tract, both sides appeared satisfied, at least for the moment, by a suggestion from county administrator David Ash that the study consultant be charged to define the “minimum area that can be economically developed.”

The final disposition of issuing a request for  proposal to study the economic zoning for Double Tollgate will be considered, and likely decided, in two weeks  at the Supervisor’s next regular session on May 24.

“We’ve got Dinosaur Land and a 7-11 there” said Supervisor Byrd. “This area is begging for a makeover.”

 

Comments

  1. O. Springsbury says:

    “Supervisor Dunning joined Byrd in questioning the value of spending taxpayer money to study the area and suggested that Berryville’s that the county should focus more on building out the existing industrial park in Berryville.”

    I agree, haven’t you all pissed away enough of our tax dollars????

    Staelin pointed out that the economics of extending sewer and water to the area didn’t make sense for only a 50-acre parcel so expanding the study area could provide the Supervisors with additional options.

    Another very good point!

    This county seems to spend money hand over fist for studies and other hog wash then have problems balancing the budget…. OH LETS JUST RAIS PROPERTY TAXES!!! AGAIN!!! Enough is enough!!!!

    Leave that land be and focus on saving rather than spending!!!!!

  2. Tony Parrott says:

    If we don’t diversify our tax revenue to include more business tax all we are left with is raising property taxes or cutting services.
    Limiting the scope of the study limits the ability of the supervisors to make a sound decision. How to zone this property and its economic development should be of great interest to this county because the location is prime and the potential tax revenue for the county could help offset those property taxes in years to come. I’d rather see the BOS spend money on something that potentially has a ROI for the tax payers rather than another DUR or land easement.

  3. positiveinfluence says:

    I just want to point out that while Clarke is a beautiful and rural community, allowing SOME building – in a location that wont interfere with the quaintness of our towns – will go a very very long way in saving us tax dollars – does anyone realize just how much tax revenue a large store like Target or Walmart would bring? The school could certainly be paid for by such a building. Not saying its THE answer – but it certainly bears consideration.

  4. How about those traffic numbers, ye naysayers who said we don’t have enough traffic for big box retail business or chain restaurants??? Ha! Considered the zoning of ajoining counties, it looks to me that would be the perfect place for a mall or outlet type establishment. Or maybe a little retail development like Creekside Station in Kernstown. No further studies (or money wasted) needed. Just get it done.

  5. Fly on the wall says:

    Interesting. Mrs. Byrd went on record as saying that she “didn’t want to diturb the viewshed” there last year when that solar farm proposal was made. Now, she wants to see that area “get a makeover.” You can’t have it both ways.

    As for building out the industrial park…where? Whose farm are you gonna take via eminent domain, since the established lots have been sold (which is why this county STILL doesn’t have an economic development coordinator)? Byrd certainly ain’t going to let development go north of Rt. 7, and Waterloo has been clamped down pretty tight.

    I’m so glad that this is an election year. It is pretty clear that the current board doesn’t have a clear direction, beyond conservation easements.

    • Richie Blick says:

      Very good points! And I will add a lot of Boyce/Waterloo had high speed internet to some county residences (Dunning’s area) but NOT north of Route 7 in Burd’s area! In 2011, no internet for NONE of Byrd’s area. I know a guy with a Verizon box in his yard, north of Route 7, and Verizon won’t hook him up. Instead he pays $600+ a month for a high speed line. Satellite’s are worthless. But the speed limit got lowered, new signs & sign posts installed on every corner and a bunch or roads are re-graveled.

      Oh and let’s keep putting more trucks on EAST MAIN STREET and focus on the industrial area – since they banned truck traffic on WEST MAIN sending it all my way on E. Main, and not a sidewalk, curb, gutter, drain for ANY OF EAST MAIN STREET. But let’s put even more trucks this way.

      Seems that the basics are forgotten.

      Richie Blick, Berryville

    • “…I’m so glad that this is an election year. It is pretty clear that the current board doesn’t have a clear direction…”

      I beg to differ with you…I believe they have a very CLEAR direction…to get re-elected!

  6. Richie Blick says:

    They are building a wal-mart on 522 in Frederick County near the Comcast office only a few miles away. And Riverton has a wal-mart, Target and seemingly 25 other stores. I say we don’t need or want big box stores here – and hopefully zoning will permit them. I am currently in negotiations to assist a buyer to purchase a home in the Active Adult 55+ community “Shenandoah” at Lake Frederick. Their STUNNING entrance is in Clarke but the houses & their tax revenues are in Frederick, and some residents in feel their post office should not be Front Royal (none of the homes are even in Warren County). They want some reasonable shopping nearby. There is already a Citizens Convenience Center nearby. I think Johnston has it right on – a modern village type development (like a smaller Creekside) would be great there. Right now the people in that community, White Post, and others nearby have to patronize Riverton at I66. I say wait for Mr. Dunnings successor speak for that area and what the residents there want. Right now the developers can’t seem to sell/finish developing the 50/522 intersection so doubtful if anything will happen for a long, long time at 522/340. But they should have a master plan in place. They do not need a $40,000 study to do that right now. Keep the tax dollars in Clarke!

    • Interested bysitter says:

      If Mr. Dunning’s successor is Bev McKay, it’ll be more of the same. The sad thing is that this county has spent so much effort to become an island unto itself, the costs of settin up infrastructure enhancements has only gone up and become more glaring. If they want to build up Double Tollgate efectively, then they’ve got to get water and sewer there; “pump-n-haul” like @ Waterloo ain’t going to cut it.

      • Richie Blick says:

        Oh there are so many people that ‘may’ be running. Nothing against McKay, but what is needed is new blood and new ideas.

  7. ElinorDashwood says:

    I agree with Tony, positive and Bubba. It is the perfect spot for big store or two. I know this is going to draw a lot of thumbs down but I would like to see a Kohl’s go in there. The only one in a 25 mile radius is smack in the middle of Winchester. Who’s view is it going to disturb, the dinosaurs? They (Tony, positive and Bubba) are right about how much it could help Clarke in the way of revenue.
    The comment by Johnston? “For example, if we could draw genetic research companies interested in doing research on animals and crops the area could provide a big laboratory for them to work with.”
    REALLY unhappy with that thought…

    • Bob Kelly says:

      With all due respect no big box store will locate at Double Tollgate. The idea is to capture the thru-traffic with businesses like Sheetz and the fast food nation. There simply isn’t enough population to support a Kohls or anything like it in that area. Simply put the Clarke BOS isn’t going to allow lots of residential development in that area anytime soon just based on sewage capacity alone. They’re looking for a couple of cash cows like they have at Waterloo. They might allow some luxury homes on large lots, such as was done at White Post, but nothing that will support the sort of retail outlets that you describe.

      • I disagree. If both counties on either side are zoned for business and are actively headed that way (reference the new Wal-Mart going in right down the road in Frederick and other businesses cropping up in Warren such as Target and the senior development, it would be in our best interest to seriously look into building retail in that area to take advantage of the traffic coming through in both directions from neighboring countiies. 18,000 daily vehicles and growing is not bad! And I bet there is even more traffic coming down Route 50. If we think out of the box and offer stores and restaurants different than what is in neighboring counties, the crowds will come.

    • livein22611 says:

      Not sure where you live but there is a Kohl’s up 340 in Charlestown.

  8. My 2 Cents says:

    What concrete proof do you have, other than your personal opinion that no box store couldn’t make it work out there Mr. Bob Kelly? Just keep pouring your money into Frederick and Warren County then, they sure don’t mind……

  9. I agree with those that see revenue slipping through our fingers and I have to side with Elinor on the store. I have friends and family that live in Front Royal and Linden that drive to the Kohl’s in Winchester because it is the nearest one. I know there is a new Walmart going in up rt.522 and I think they have great produce and meats but I for one, won’t buy clothes there. Before moving to Clarke, I often stopped at Kohl’s to get some clothes for myself or my kids or a gift for someone on my way home from work. Why wouldn’t some of the 18,000 other commuters do the same? Wouldn’t the good people of Front Royal like to go half the distance to Winchester?

  10. livein22611 says:

    I live in Berryville and really hate driving to Double Tollgate because of the roads and the slow drivers on 340. My only other option is to drive into Winchester and go down 522 to get there. Not likely to happen. Especially for a Kohl’s or Wal-Mart. You’d only draw from the surrounding community and I haven’t seen anything but a bunch of cows aorund there. The senior development residents will only shop on Tuesdays!! Ya’ll gotta get over it and just embrace Clarke County for what it is. Want change? Move to a more populated area. They have the demographics for bigger stores. I know, I know…ya’ll hate it when I bring up demographics. But wandering into Kohl’s once every couple of months for new underwear doesn’t keep the doors open long.
    I’ll bet $20 that five years from now and with a whole new BOS, nothing will have changed. No big stores. Heck, I’ll even make it ten years from now.
    And how many of you got all excited when you saw the “Wendy’s Coming To Berryville” title?? Suckers.

    • livingin22620 says:

      The problem with some of you living in 22611 is that you think you are the only ones in the county that count. Berryville is at the one side of the county, with Boyce, Millwood, and White Post at the other. We aren’t talking convenience here, we’re talking about revenue to this county and you conveniently ignore the 18,000 cars driving through when you bring up demographics. You are appear to have tunnel vision, my friend.
      Oh, and the last thing this county needs is another fast food store.

      • livingin22620 says:

        Also, to use your reasoning (livein22620) about slow drivers on 340 means I shouldn’t bother with B’ville shopping cause let me tell you, getting through there takes a lot longer than getting through Boyce, Waterloo and White Post. I shop there because I want to fiscally support our county as much as I can, it isn’t for the plethora of shopping venues. You can keep driving to Kohl’s in Charlestown when you want your underwear, it takes me too long to get through B’ville to bother.

    • Interested bysitter says:

      The only place in Berryville to get new underwear are the dollar stores; same with shoes. If Berryville would get over its beef with Echols, and allow a Creekside-style build-out there at 7/340, then perhaps a 1st-run clothing store, a shoe store, or a CVS/Walgreens or something could seriously consider moving in. This would also create more job opporunities for teens and others in this county, instead of them looking outside the county for employment.

      It’s not about makin Berryville/CC more like Leesburg; it’s about being smart and forward thinking.

      • Richie Blick says:

        Somehow, we must be able to do just that AND protect Downtown Berryville. It is the cornerstone and idealistic character of the community and since living in town for 13 years, and 4 small kids, I love not having a drive-thru fast food chain here. Saves me a bunch of money! Heck, we have several vacant store fronts are for rent and one day the Coiner Building will be finished. That was ‘the’ clothing store for decades. Maybe Mr. J. Johnson (owner of the building) can bring in one? The far left building has been totally renovated and is now for rent. That would make a great store for someone. Everyone knows we don’t need more sit down restaurants or business offices! Berryville and Clarke residents could not even support the quaint Gold Leaf Gifts and that was an ideal small town shop and party supply store. Who is to think they will support a clothing store? A couple years ago Christy Dunkel mailed out a questionnaire asking residents what they wanted. I never heard the results. I am hoping for a small town pet store. As a town resident we really need retail to offset property taxes!

        • jennifer says:

          I personally liked the sporting goods store idea. Apparently I was not the only one who’s daughter got excited when she noticed it Tuesday afternoon. The risk for a potential business owner is that too many people would still, in spite of gas prices, drive to Walmart for cheaper stuff. The small guy will never be able to compete with the big chains unless we support them.

          • Lonnie Bishop says:

            But…if opportunities for smart development are not seriously pursued, how can small businesses even get a foothold to see if they can compete?

  11. According to VDOT (http://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/2009/AADT_021_Clarke_2009.pdf) 18,000 cars a day pass the 340/522 interchange. I don’t think cows are driving those cars. Another area Clarke County should explore is west of the Rt7 / 340 interchange. 25,000 cars a day pass this location. Most of them commuters from NVa to Winchester / Frederick County. Instead of Clarke County citizens shopping in Winchester and sending our sale tax dollars there we should have it the other way. Comparing traffic county, Pleasant Valley Road in Winchester has 25,000 cars a day. The busiest shopping area in Winchester BOS … stop putting the tax burden on property owners and generate some alternative sources of revenue.

  12. Stonebroke says:

    We have the Land of the Lost and a Red Apple in Berryville, and we to are begging for a makeover!

  13. Stonebroke says:

    Why is there so much opposition against small strip style devolopment? Can anyone from the BOS explain why this is the mental state of every single member on the BOS? We, the People, just don’t understand it?

  14. GOPjunky says:

    I used to have the 22620 address… now its 22655!

    Took my kids out of Clarke Schools!
    Took my tax money out of Dunning’s hands.

    now!

    I have services
    I have cable TV and high speed internet!
    I have Sherando Park
    I have restaurants!
    My streets were cleared the same day as the snow! Not a week later!
    I can order deliver to my house from several different restaurants!
    I have a Wal-Mart going in just a mile or so from my house and it would suit me just fine if you backward thinking Clarke County people would just stay in Berryville. Forward thinkers welcome!
    My kids have theaters, Malls, great schools. Can’t even begin to tell you the significant difference in I have noticed in the school system.
    School resource officers in every school.

    I see my tax money leave my wallet! The difference being in Frederick Co. I can see where its going! I Clarke Co. I never saw where my money did a bit of good.

    • Mike Jenkins says:

      Congrats on “getting out” of horrible Clarke County. Now, can you do us a favor and convince “My 2 Cents” and “Stonebroke” to join you? Quit whining and move if walmart, wendy’s and a strip mall is THAT important to you.

      • My 2 Cents says:

        Why should we have to move Mike??? Believe it or not, I personally know of this, Stonebroke, and I think he has been around town a few yrs… Why is it that WE cannot have nice modern business’s just like our surrounding neighbors do? Are you afraid it might financially affect you or a friend?? Why should we have to pour our money into Frederick County or Jefferson County???? Care to elaborate??? Oh, I get it, you must have a horse farm or some cattle……..

  15. My 2 Cents says:

    I’d say GOP summed it up perfectly! The Old- Timers fear change and everything that goes along with it! As long as their farms and money are protected they could care less about the remaining residents of Berryville and Clarke. Sad thing is, with Dunning going out, his replacement will be just as bad in McCay.

    Stonebroke, I agree with you, a strip mall would be great! Nothing fancy but something that has meaning. I think far more patrons would shop there as compared to a Gold Leaf Hobby/Antique shop……

  16. Stonebroke says:

    Excellent Post!

    We have no services
    Some have Cable and High Speed internet
    We have the Clarke Co. Park. (Walking Trail, Not enough facilities to accomodate our Youth programs)
    We have restaurants. (Nothing open past 9pm–so you better eat early)
    Snow removal is not too bad.
    Fox’s Deliver ( If you can stand to eat that horrible food)
    Don’t need a Walmart in Berryville– Heck we have 2 Dollar Stores (Do we actually need two?)

    Hmmm….Where is my tax money going?

  17. GOPjunky says:

    Sad thing is I probably would have stayed in CC, but I couldn’t afford to buy there. I have 2165 square feet on ½ acre 2 stall garage, central air and heat, fireplace in the finished basement, hard wood throughout, 4 bed 2 ½ bath with full wrap around deck and a paved driveway in a beautiful wooded subdivision! For $175,000.00 built in 1998 Find that for me in CC.

    Spoke to a man yesterday that owns a business in CC. Boyce to be more specific, he Said he has been renting a large building to run his 30 year old HVAC company out of. He is closing up shop in CC and bought a building on the bypass in downtown Front Royal right across from Marlow motors and has stated that Warren Co. has been a pleasure to deal with.

    He has both building open at this time and the Warren Co. location is tripling his CC location in traffic and sales as he has business around him and foot traffic. Homes are still being built in Warren so the need for HVAC he said is much greater than in CC where there is virtually no construction of any kind. Warren Co. is developing and he said he can no longer afford to stay in CC and deal with the closed mindedness. He has Comcast Internet and phone service going in and will be able to do warrantee paperwork on-line for the first time ever is having a website built because he can now view it with high speed internet v/s the dialup service he had in CC. He said his employees are excited to have options for lunch other than McDonalds, Sheetz and Handy Mart.

    I want to be clear my view of things in Clarke Co. are a bit dramatic at times but the facts as I see them are this!

    You can have a beautiful Rural Co. with developed areas. Loudoun, Frederick, Warren, etc.
    No one is saying make Clarke like Fairfax, but a Martin’s would be nice. CVS, Walgreens, Target, or like an earlier post said something like creek side would be great. Williamsburg Va. has mastered the art of incorporating nature and the beauty of its area in with growth and development.
    Stephens City where I live has walking paths all over the place, they just made a new one this year going from Sherando park along Warrior Dr. connecting to Tasker Rd. We have Bicycle lanes. These are things that CC should be able to have.

    I have a fire Station here that has full time employees. Go to Sherando or Millbrook High school and look at their facility in comparison to Clarkes. I don’t mean to knock CC. but it could be so much better if people would open their minds and have just a little vision.

    My argument is that in Clarke Co. You should be able to have your cake and eat it too. The river is beautiful, the mountain is beautiful, the Appalachian Trail is incredible, and the Arboretum is fantastic. These things are great once or twice for the most part with the exception of the river which is fun all summer but services and conveniences are what make life easier and choices are part of the balance.

    • livein22611 says:

      Williamsburg??? Didn’t they have a nice little benefactor named ROCKEFELLER! That may have helped them a bit.
      Please don’t compare Stephens City to what we need in Clarke County. You also have the lovely I-81 interchange, the gorgeous flea market, the abandoned Food Lion, the Costco Outlet place…..lovely. And do you walk on those walking paths at night? I’d be a little scared. But very glad you moved to a place you love. I’m in a place I love. Thank you for your concern.

      • GOPjunky says:

        The gorgeous Flea Market is 2/3 in Clarke County. The Abandon Food Lion is in Winchester where Kroger used to be. Been a member of Costco for 8 years, love the place. Why would you be scared to use the walking paths at night? If you twist your ankle a Full time paid firemen will show up to help you not volunteers! If you need police a member of the almost 200 man Sheriff’s office will be there to help.
        No problem for my concern. Just so you know I work for Clarke County! I take every dollar of my paycheck and bring it right here to Frederick Co. Thanks you for your concern!

        • Lonnie Bishop says:

          The abandoned Food Lion used to be a Jamesway, and is across from the Martin’s, GOPjunky. Get back to work.

          • GOPjunky says:

            I see you a abandon Food Lion and Raise you and Abandon American Woodmark. Just think if your Food Lion was abandon you wouldn’t have a grocery store at all.

      • Lonnie Bishop says:

        Rockefeller only helped restore the historic area around Duke of Gloucester Street. The Williamsburg/James City County folks know how to find a balance between old and new. Heck, they took on Wal*Mart back in the day over its old gray/blue/red color scheme and won…that store now has a “colonial brick” colored facade.

        CC could do the same…if its leaders had the gumption to givin more than lip service to economic development.

  18. My 2 Cents says:

    Another Home-Run for GOPJUNKY!

    Now watch all the people sit back and bash you! They wanna keep Berryville just like Mayberry! Hope you same people that hate fast-food and new business enjoy your free Wendy’s today!

  19. Stonebroke says:

    Can someone give me an update on what is happening downtown? Sorry, I couldn’t make it for my free Berry Salad. How many Rubber Neckers are checking it out?

  20. O. Springsbury says:

    What will end up happening is a study will be done, the study will show its not feasible to develop this area for retail and nothing will be done, it will remain as it is. I believe this is what the plan has been all along. It’s a way to not build @ Double Toll gate. It would be stupid to put retail in this area, running sewage out to that location is cost prohibitive for Clarke County. The only way it would work is for the county to partner with Warren or Fredrick counties to have them run their sewage line out to that location and we all know that will never happen.
    The place to build retail is @ 7 and 340 where more people travel but we also know that won’t happen either for various reasons.
    I see this as the next CC fiasco. Just like the mess with the High School and the whole Flag pole deal in Waterloo.

    I heard the salvation army offered to build an indoor pool at the new high school if the county built on the property the SA donated. It is also my understanding they offered to help pay part of the cost to run sewage out to that property too. Another thing is the roundabout that’s going in…. Now isn’t that a mess? Who’s paying for that roundabout? VDOT? I think not… This county pisses away money like it grown on trees… Do you know what’s going on with the property the SA wanted to donate to the County? I hear through the grape vine there are some not so kosher things still going on with it at the present time….

    • livein22611 says:

      Well, I heard that there are a lot of people out there who believe and spread stupid rumors and don’t even bother to see if they are true or not! Not sure where you get your information from but stop doing it. It’s a load a manure. The Salvation Army offered NOTHING to anyone! They wanted everyone else to do everthing for them. And VDOT is paying for the roundabout. Do you ever go to any meetings or so you just get your information from your misinformed source. It’s rumors and crap like this that make me sick.
      FYI-the SA never donated the land. Hard to build on land ya don’t own. Go look for the deed in the courthouse and see what you find.